TVR Car Club France

De retour après de longues vacances à la plage et un gros rhûme au retour...

Pareil pour moi : j´utilise la pente d´accés au garage, je mets une petite rampe en bois pour soulever une roue et après c´est une question de quelques coups de cric et une paire de chandelles.

Jamais démonté le boîtier de direction ..., mais je pensai il serait accésible par en dessous...
Aucune idée non plus sur les rondelles de la photo, navré.

Pour ce qui est de Gregor, ça c´est mal terminé à la fin. Il est même allé jusqu´à pratiquement l´insulte .., je ne l´ai pas trouvé correct en fin de comptes; et pourtant j´ai essayé de me montrer le plus compréhensif et poli posible. Il ne s´intérésse qu´à de gros boulots qui raportent gros (surtout dans son cas, ou il profite clairement des salaires chez lui) et donc voulait m´imposer sa volonté rapport à ce qu´il faut faire sur la voiture, verbi gratia le budget pour lequel il prendrait le boulot en charge (dans les 10 mille €).
Donc, option hongroise à la poubelle, je suis toujours à la recherche de n´importe quel tuyau ou autre conseil qui pourrait m´aider à trouver une solution pour remettre ma belle sur pieds.
Idées bienvenues

Hello Fernando,

you can belive us/me that we dont will start one job if the target for it´s end will not on high quality level. We try to do a good job altimes.
Certainly shit is happen sometimes and „Garfield never sleep“ unfortunately by us too.

I worte more as onetimes that the final inspection by us under my own eyes will be decisive. If then I will tell you that we can repair the grp
on this or other way it will be by end one nice job .

Orders with the target to make it quick/wrong/bad/cheap we dont want get because it will harm our name for which we have been work hard and long.

For sure is that we dont will exceed the sum oft he worst-calcultion for this job here are incl. the exchanged end-section and bonntet.

Possible we can do it cheaper as the best-calculation but then we determin the way how we will make it. For 6000€ you get in UK only
the paint

http://www.centraltvr.com/product/chima ... y-respray/

and you think that we can do the whole job for the same value. I´m sorry but my answer is no.


Kind Regards


Gregor




Von: Fernando
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. August 2015 21:48
An: Gregor
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Pre Calculations

Hi Gregor,
Sorry again for the late reply, I'm rather busy lately as having to leave tomorrow for a journey in Spain.
I'm also sorry for having lead you to a misunderstanding I'm afraid. You are misinterpreting me, starting by the transportation cost as I consider it apart, and it's also something that I can maybe arrange by myself for less money. Then it's not a great issue.
For the job, I believe the boot can be repaired better than replaced (seeing what you are capable to do from the photos you sent), then the only piece which would be maybe needed is the back end, so 1300 + vat + shipment.
I don't know if you'll need to lift up the body for the rear repair, otherwise I believe it would only need a short lift to replace the panels in place.
It doesn't need a full re spray as well, only the back, the front wing and maybe the front end to match. The rest is in good condition.
In addition the 6000 figure I told you about is what I think reasonable to keep the car alive and also what I'm able to afford, although it doesn't mean it should be feasible, I was just asking your advice about it and looking at reaching an arrangement. Then let me ask you once again: do you think it would be possible if we only order the back end, so around 1500€, and I put another 5000€ for the job?
I'll try to get connected as much as possible while away, so we can still exchanging.
Thanks in advance for your understanding.
Cheers,
Fernando

Enviado desde mi iPad

El 27 août 2015, a las 16:50,
Hello Fernando,

the fee which I was paid for the transport of „Philippe“ car was 820€ for one hungarian guy which lives in France and comes to Hungary 1-2 per year and this was also without vat.
Before I got one offer of one company which was not serious. They told me 700€ fort he transport and late comes out that they want 700€ per way = 700€ go Lyon and 700€
back plus 27% hungarian vat.

Therefore that Philippe got one price from me of 700€ I paid the difference from my privat pocket . That I dont want do any more ! The cost of ca. 1000€ you have to pay from
Lyon to Paris only. I know that well.

The 3 different calculation shows possibilties by material and work which are solong not clear before I see your car with my own eyes. Possibile we have to used new parts but
also possible we can prepare your old .

For 6000€ we can not make this job incl. body off, full body paint and repair all grp-damages. If I remember right you wrote about 1300GBP for the rear section 700GBP for the
bonnet plus 20% vat = 3408€ (as I worte my offer the €/GBP was 1:1,42) and do not forget the transport-fee of rear-section and bonnet !

You realy belive that for the difference of ca. 2.200€ to your 6000€ somebody will repair, paint, transport your car ?


Kind Regards


Gregor

Von: Fernando
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. August 2015 15:15
An: Gregor
Betreff: RE: AW: Pre Calculations

Hi Gregor,
I´m really sorry for not having been able to reply sooner, I´ve been struggling with a server crack down here at the office, which still not totally repaired : today I got finally access to my hotmail account ...; and went as well to a wedding in north Spain (Asturias= 1300 kms away from here) during the last long w/e.
I understand your needs re work-planning for the next months, so I´ll try to explain you what are mines to see if we can get to an agreement.
In fact I´ve aslo been consulting with several peoples in order to make my mind clear about what I would like, and to start I must confess you I´ve talk with Philippe (the Chim french owner) to compare prices and the first thing I don´t understand is why there is a so big difference starting by the transportation : 700 € for him, while more than 1000 € for me, even when I´m near in distance than him.
In relation with your 3 budgets, for which I thank you very much indeed, I don´t really understand where you make the differences between them, as it´s difficult to establish comparisons without references. Although in any case I find them excessively expensives, for me to satrt with, but also for what I consider would be wortwhile to undertake, and at that purpose also Philippe told you are an open minded guy and so would be open to discuss and negociate; then I think I can explain you that I don´t believe in the worthyness of a repair which excede the 50% of the actual value of the car. So in those terms the repair would be interesting if getting under a 6000 € figure.., considering the car would be around the 12 thousand € figure as it´s (so with engine probs and etc..) but with the body OK.
I´ve been brainstorming about it all the time long and don´t know what I could do for you to take the bill down.., maybe another article as Philippe did, but I don´t believe the brit club will be so open minded abou it, although maybe you could be interested if I post it in "pistonhead" ?
Tell me if there is any other "compensation" that would be good for you.
I´ve also thought that you could maybe take the car and once over there and seeing exactly what she needs, you could go on with the job but in the understanding that it´ll not exceed a previously determined amount (the nearest to the 6 figure already mentioned), so adapting the job to the ending resulting amount.
Please tell me what are your feelings about the whole thing, and keep in mind that otherwhise the only solution which remains for me is to sell her in pieces..
Please forgive me again for the lack of reaction till now, and be assured that I would be grateful to bring my car to your premises and have the job done by you and your staff.
Well, enough said for the moment and don´t want to pick you more time than necessary.
I remain waiting for your news then and I wish you all the best.
Fernando

________________________________________
From:
To:
CC:
Subject: AW: Pre Calculations
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 08:52:49 +0200
Hello Fernando,

we are planing the work fort he next rebuild-season october2015 – april 2016 and would like to know which customer
we fix for this time. You was find a end solution for you project ?

Kind Regards

Gregor

Von:
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. August 2015 14:51
An:
Betreff: RE: Pre Calculations

Hi Gregor,
thank you very much for taking the time to do such calculations.
I´ll have a look and study them to see if I think it´s posible for me to go ahead with it.
I´ll be back to you soon...
Cheers,
Fernando

________________________________________
From:
To:
CC:
Subject: Pre Calculations
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 14:34:52 +0200
Hello Fernando,

I understand that you want know about the level of cost which will wait you if you let repair your chimaera. But please understand too that finaly
I can give you the real price only if have seen your chimaera with my own eyes.

Therfore I made 3 different calculation for you. Also it can be possible that we find to do it cheaper but not over distance and only by pictures.

All our works we document with photos so that you know closed to realtime what and how we do.



Kind Regards


Gregor

Bon,je vois que ça chauffe pas mal pour ce pauvre Gregor.

Il est toujours difficile de budgétiser une réparation/renovation sans voir de visu la voiture et le problème avec Gregor comme avec les réparateurs anglais résulte essentiellement dans l'éloignement géographique.

Dans mon cas j'ai eu au final un problème de serrage de vilebrequin sur un vilebrequin non d'origine (ce que j'ignorais), ce que Gregor à vu mais il est vrai, n'a pas vérifié le remontage fait par son employé, et un problème de joint sur le boitier de direction, ce qui est parfaitement imprévisible.

J'ai rencontré et discuté avec le bonhomme et il est obsessionnel dans le bon sens du terme et fait toujours les choses à fond, sans bidouille, ce qui peut expliquer votre malentendu.

Mon rénovateur Porsche était pareil mais avec un résultat final parfait et une sacrée réputation.

Je peux vous assurez que sur une rénovation TOTALE d'une voiture, n'est vraiment pas grand chose. J'ai ai fait faire d'autre et j'ai eu des problèmes à chaque fois, sauf que c'était réglé en 1 jours car à coté de chez moi.

Parlez en avec certains qui ont fait des travaux lourds chez Marc Minne, pourtant considéré comme la référence TVR.

Pour les prix, j'ai du mal à juger mais il ne me semble moins cher que les Anglais et connais vraiment bien les TVR.

Et SURTOUT, l ne me laissa pas tombé dans ma galère, ce qui est loin d'être le cas dans ce milieux, avec les anciennes comme les modernes.

Au final, il garde ma confiance. J'espère bien que vous pourrez admire son travail le 30 janvier pour l'assemblée générale du club, de VISU.

Toute critique sera alors la bienvenue.

Bon WE et bon match

Philippe

Je ne crois pas du tout vivre dans le monde de Disney, mais c'est vraiment tout à ton honneur de faire la part des choses et de ne pas te laisser aller aux aigreurs.

De ce que j'avais pu voir de ta voiture (de près du coup! ) ça sentait effectivement le travail de qualité jusque dans les petits détails... malgré ce détail-là parmi des centaines d'autres.


... Et comme je sais que nous ne vivons décidément pas dans le monde de Disney, bon match aussi; ça va être musclé!!!

Je n'ai pas d'actions chez Gregor non plus, mais mettez vous un instant à sa place dans votre métier, est ce que vous anonceriez un prix bas sans vraiment avoir connaissance de l'ampleur du travail surtout si on aime bien faire son job.
Je ne suis pas non plus spécialiste de la fibre mais ça me paraît cavalier de refaire l'arrière de la voiture sans déposer le châssis, il faut que le raccordement se fasse aussi à l'intérieur.
Mais je comprends que ça pique.

Please take a look to the follow pictures which I got :







Someone can see how high run the damage behinde the fuel tank ?
The break concerns exactly the two fastening points where also comes as
additional loads high vibrations from the rear section depend of the changeable
loading value into the trunk.

We must laminate from both side if it has to be stabil. If some want do it on other
way he can do it but without us.

But this was not all what was to do like Fernandos whishes. Slidded doors, headlamps,
broken body transitions were to correct, and one old damage by the front of it´s chimi
he was wish that we repair it like


viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5225

and paint it like

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5228





Salut


Gregor

+1 aussi sur ce qui à été dit sur la difficulté à faire un devis sur photos surtout avec un choc de cette importance, c'est impossible de donner un montant sans avoir à le réviser pas la suite. La dessus on ne peut rien reprocher à Gregor...
De plus repeindre la voiture par morceaux, n est pas vraiment ce qu il y a de mieux au niveau qualité, tant pour le rendu final que pour l'exécutant.

@Lord Varso, je ne parle pas anglais courament, mais de ce que j'ai cru comprendre, je n'ai rien lu d'insultes ni de malhonnêteté dans les mails de Gregor...

Avec les mésaventures de Pdi, c'est vrai qu'on pourrait être un peu méfiant et sur la réserve, surtout avec la distance, mais il faut avouer que Gregor à apparemment tout fait pour régler les problèmes au mieux et le travail effectué (du moins sur les photos) semble de haut niveau.

Dans le cas présent, je plussoie aussi, pour en avoir parlé avec mon carrossier spécialiste en anciennes et connaissant très bien le polyester pour avoir réparé notement des alpines bien mûres, pour ce job il travaillerait en régie !, ou sur base à l'instar de Gregor d'un devis très largement calculé pour ne pas y perdre sa culotte !
Pour mémoire, puisque quelqu'un à évoqué Marc Minne, il y a quelques années, un membre du club a sérieusement abimé sa Tuscan S6 sur l'autoroute, Marc l'a reconstruite sur une autre caisse d'occasion qui avait été déclassée par les assurances parceque victime d'une innodation, plutôt que de se lancer dans des travaux de carrosserie polyester...Il ne faut pas oublier que nos voitures sont quasi construites à la pièce, et que la coque de l'une ne passe pas forcément sur une autre sans ajustements....alors recoller les morceaux après un crash important....

worst case with new rear section and new trunk bonnet like Fernando was wish it .....



the first alternativ calculation .......



the second alternativ calculation ....... maded all only by pictures of Fernando


Salut


Gregor

assez difficile à lire , mais...voilà qui est parfaitement limpide!
un beau devis avec plusieurs options en fonction des éventuelles surprises...
après, on accepte ou pas, mais je ne vois pas beaucoup d'objet de discussion

...en plus sans vouloir jouer les vilains pessimistes, en revoyant les photos, j'ai l'impression que le châssis est touché ....

Pour envisager une telle restauration, il faut être très entreprenant et bien connaître ses capacités.
Tout travail de qualité à un coût. Sinon, le propriétaire peut vendre sa chimaera pour pièce.

To take on such a restoration project, one must be very enterprising and really know his abilities.
You pay for what you get. Otherwise, the owner can always sell his chimaera for spares.

The early steering racks was maded by Burman´s from Birmingham also the early pas steering racks too.

The production rights were later sold to Supra when Burman pulled out of the rack and pinion market in the
mid-nineties. There may have been variants and minor changes during the transition to Supra but mostly the
construction and inner parts stay the same by direction and only the housing was changed, Chimaera/Griffith/
Cerbera version to Speed Six. Once only the rack/shaft by the Speed Six version was change to longer.

Both companies no longer exist and there has been NO production of these racks in the past 12 years.

Steering pinion/valve and all inside dimension were equal between the tvr pas steering racks.

But by Supra changed parts and whose the quality. Depend on TVR cost pressure by small serie quantites
Supra was looking for economicalcal spare parts. Mechanical was no possibilities so that only by casting
or sealing Supra saw alternatives.

Supra used about from 1996 oil seal of the producer "Goetze" inside of the pas oil power section








Goetze produced this oil seal in a very massiv and stabil configuration, better as all competitors on the marked
and exactly in the right dimension like Supra was need it. But also in mid-nineties "Federal Mogul" bouth out the
company "Goetze" and sold out the oil seal devision of "Goetze".

Supra and TVR toghter bought up in this time a lot of oil seals of the old "Goetze" production which the new owner
was stopped. These oil seals and many internal parts are available to buy of the old stock of TVR/Supra still now
from some dealers.

But, so we have found it out, Goetze never was produce or specified for these job as high pressure steering oil seal
for about max.140bar ! It was only one ordinary low cost seal for radial function and not axial function which
was in quality better as the seals of the competitors.

Also we was used/bought these steering seal kit´s from the island and built this.

Parallel as we started to reconstuct the different TVR steerings housing, pinion & racks and we was glad whose oil seal kit´s
was ready to buy from the island.

This was one mistake by some steerings how we found out later. Because they was leaking after some thousand kilometer.

Quick we analysed the problem and saw the basic fault. Immediatley we was search for one experienced producer of pas
oil seals and let´s produce the smallest quantity = thousend of oil seals in right dimension for TVR Pas steering racks.
















PDI .... we was checked the new seals by 140bar about 24h in different positions
and load changes to max. stress ~ 160bar shortly. The steering is dry and I hope
it will be for many years.





One we change by our condition after one refit or/and full restauration. The first
500 to 1000 km will be tested by us or we dont touch this project !

PDI next week I will send your PAS Steering Rack to you.


Cheerio


Gregor


www.vtautomotive.com


"quality first"

Thank you Gregor for all this explanation.
I will be able to show your excellent work to all TVR members

Merry Chrismas to you and your family

regards

Philippe

good news for our Friend !